nissan says they'll says tha fully automated car by 2014. we wanted to know what you want in your car. mary jo says the vacuum cleaner. "morning joe" starts right now. i have a dream. my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

i have a dream today. >> good morning. it's wednesday, august 28. we have msnbc contributor. and we have richard wolf. on capitol hill host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the action network, reverend al sharpton. welcome to "morning joe." joe, what a historic day. >> 50 years later, extraordinary. of course, also extraordinary events ahead of us. unfortunately, perhaps, our nation called into conflict again in the coming days. we'll talk about syria in a minute. we look back at this speech and rank this speech probably as one of the greatest in american

history. it's easy to forget 50 years later that a lot of people didn't want martin luther king to deliver this speech including jfk who tried to get him to call the civil rights march and speech off. he refused and kennedy was left with no option but to support this speech and the rest, as they say, is history. >> it is. president kennedy watched the speech being carried live on the three television networks. his remark after it was finished was he is damn good. one master of oratory understood it. i would argue that what dr. king said today 50 years ago was the most important piece of american oratory from the gettysburg address through our own time. it redefined what it meant to be

an american. it carried forward what jefferson started and what lincoln ratified and what king was urging us to do was live up to the full promise of what jefferson, lincoln, washington had fought for. the only, i think, two pieces of oratory that would rival it would be fdr's, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself and president kennedy inaugural address. martin luther king joined the founding fathers 50 years ago today. >> reverend al sharpton obviously an important event 50 years ago. 50 years laterer there will be an african-american president going to commemorate this moment. what an extraordinary journey it has been and the journey, as you say every day and as all americans understand, the journey continues. what do you want to hear from

the president of the united states today? >> well, i think that what we want to hear is a commitment to continue that journey but to also salute the fact that we have made the journey. we met with him two days ago after having a huge march on saturday about the issues now. and one of the things that i said is that i feel that he should not be compared to dr. king. he is the president. we want to hear from him as the generation before us heard from kennedy about what we are going to do. so i think that there is some kind of misconception that he is the new king. he is the new kennedy. the new kings will be those that keep calling on him and others to finish the journey. but the fact that he is there ought to make us know we can finish the journey. america has come a long way in 50 years. and the fact that barack obama is president of the united

states means we can finish this journey toward what dr. king dreamed about. >> i can't help but think 50 years lighter all the things that martin luther king talked about are in place, racism, poverty, inequality. to see an african-american president up there in front of the lincoln memorial today. think about barack obama who had just turned 2 a few weeks prior when the speech was made. his mother and probably his grandparents were watching it, living in a segregated country where fire hoses were turned on americans. what a moment today. put the politics aside. to see that man 50 years later standing on the same step where martin luther king stood. >> it is amazing. wla last night he had a reception at the white house. when i waps standing in the east

room and they brought in dr. king's sister and i saw the picture of george washington and looked at president obama it brought tears to my eyes. i was only 8 years old when the march happened. they never could have dreamed that the president of the united states today would be an african american in part largely because of what they did. i think anyone not touched by the moment no matter what he says or doesn't say or what words expressed, anyone not touched today does not have feelings and does not have a heart or an appreciation for this country. >> you were talking earlier about the founding fathers and the link between yesterday and today. 50 years later if you reread the speech it really is about the long american march towards justice. and today the role of the

president of the united states is so emotional to see president obama today 50 years later up there. but the difficulty, the degree of difficulty involved in the president given the fact that he is president of the united states. he is not necessarily a civil rights leader but of course he is in a sense. talk about the degree of difficulty involved in his speech today. >> well, it is a hell of an act to follow. not anything anyone sane would want to do. one of the things about president obama is the country has put an enormous amount of expectation on him for five or six years now, really since he first came on the stage in 2004. i think at some level we want any president to be a national grandfather who can fix all of our problems. and we sometimes have-often have

unrealistic expectations of the office. i think that will certainly play into this today. what king was talking about and what i think president obama certainly philosophically understands is that this is a journey. as dr. king used to say, the arc of a moral universe is long but it bends towards justice but it is an art. it is a journey. it is interesting to me that when he went off into the most famous part of the speech he was extemporizing. the i have a dream was something that was not in the written text. it came from his heart. it was a prophetic vision for us to aspire to. it was not a political blueprint. and i think that the tension that you talk to is that president obama will speak in prophetic terms but ki s but wi have the ordinary human that he

needs to cover. and all the ordinary factors from president johnson will still be there when he finishes the speech this afternoon. >> you know mika we were talking about the art of history and where it goes. it is remarkable how quickly we got to where we got in the south after martin luther king's speech. i was born in atlanta georgia the year of the speech where martin luther king lived. it was a segregated georgia. six years later i started first grade in meridian, mississippi in an integrated school. and went to school at university of alabama at a very integrated campus and at a campus that in the 1980s was actually handling racial issues a lot better than

a lot of campuses across the northeast. but martin luther king not only did for america but what he did for his home region of the south, a region that had been scarred by racism and racial tensions for years. to see how quickly things -- he gave this speech the year i was born in a segregated south and segregated america. by the time i started first grade in meridian mississippi it w was integrated. that is nothing short of extraordinary and that is a legacy that we put first at the feet of martin luther king and also all the civil rights workers and protesters and leaders who gave their all to

make sure that white children like myself and black children who were my friends, who i played football with in first grade and baseball with in first grade, would go to school together. that was the normal. that was normal for me. let me -- al, let me go to you quickly here. it is incredible how that was normal for me and yet for my sister who was six years older and for others who were just a little bit older that wasn't the normal. because of king's speech in '63 and because of the work of everybody in the civil rights movement, because of that courage and because of this speech that inspired so many an integrated school in meridian, mississippi, that was the new normal and that has always been normal for me. >> you know, my mother cried when dr. king was killed.

i was only 13. i had just joined the movement. i couldn't understand it. she was born and raised in alabama. i couldn't understand why she was acting like we had been that close to dr. king. she said you never drank from a black water fountain or had to sit in the back of the bus. it changed that fast. and i think the fact that change happened as quickly as it did made some not prepared to deal with the gravity of what happened. people died. four little girls were bombed after the march on washington. i think the people that gave their lives gave it to the greater good of everybody which means those of us that come behind should not lose that spirit and commitment and face the challenges that are before us in terms of inequality. today we ought to celebrate that americans gave their lives for a better america for everybody across the board. >> and that is the most

important thing to remember today and i brought it up just to say it wasn't just for african-americans that martin luther king speech that changed america. it was for all of us. it was for 5-year-old kid like myself who was taught just by his surroundings what was acceptable and what was not acceptable. extraordinary speech and extraordinary time. >> we still learn from listening to that speech again and looking at the crowds to reflect and remember and keep the voice of dr. king in our minds. having said that even some of the guests we have on today, we are going to be talking about issues that also show we have a long way to go. we want to get to the other top head lines of the day. senior u.s. officials say air strikes against the assad regime could begin as soon as tomorrow. leaders from england and france

reportedly are considering joining the u.s. in a joint military operation. however, attempts to join a broad coalition seem unlikely as several members of the arab countries declined to back. for members of the obama administration there is no doubt the so-called red line has been crossed. >> the options that we are considering are not about regime change. they are about responding to a clear violation of an international standard that prohibits the use of chemical weapons. >> there is no doubt who is responsible for this heinous use of chemical weapons in syria, the syrian regime. >> the united states department of defense is ready to carry out those options. if that would occur that would occur also in coordination with our international partner. >> you are ready to go like that. >> we are ready to go like that.

>> according to a report from foreign policy magazine the u.s. has all but confirmed the chemical attack after intelligence officers intercepted phone calls. the reaction to a military operation in syria from washington has been mixed. nearly two dozen members of the house have signed a letterer demanding president obama consult congress before launching air strikes. senator john mccain went as far as to blame the president for what is happening in syria saying assad was able to use chemical weapons before and there was no response so why not do it again. the assad regime reviewed that not as a red line but as a green light and they acted accordingly. >> let's clarify the american objective here. is there any hint of regime change? is there any hint of going after

assad? if the answer to that question is no and we are just going to take out military targets how do we know that is where it ends? has there been a military attack that ended where we wanted it to end? >> there has. on bin laden didn't get anywhere. there were strikes against saddam hussein. didn't get anywhere. if it is all about credibility which is a big part of this which is why mccain is pushing so hard. if it is about credibility you cannot stop there because assad will kill more of his own civilians and probably use this again and tempt united states to test their credibility again. i want to try to link these two stories. it is not a small irony that we are talking about dr. king and going to war again in the same

breath. dr. king was pacifist. the president's nobel peace prize acceptance speech was in dialogue with dr. king. he is faced with an extremely difficult situation. he has to take action today. and yet the last thing he and his democrats want to do is start another war. >> americans have learned so much, too much about war over the last dozen years or so, what it means to go into a war, how you don't go in and come out the next day. there are a lot of americans this morning saying let's pump the brakes for a second and figure out what we are doing before we dive in. it is a reasonable question. it's the continuation, the 21st century version of the pow doctrine. we saw in afghanistan and iraq in different kinds of situations how war is the most uncertain of enterprises.

i think richard's right. it is very hard to predict exactly what is going to happen. i think that there is a principle at stake here. seems the administration wants to make the principleal that we will not tolerate the use of weapons of mass destruction. we were willing to tolerate the use of conventional means to slaughter a high number of syrians bought a line in terms of the means of violence has been crossed and so we want to establish that principle international law. and it is going to be international practice, i should say. it is not undertaken lightly by any means. >> and the problem here seems to be and richard wolf really touched on it. the white house is already sending out the message that they are not supporting regime change. they are sending out the message that it is not going to be a

wide spread attack, that it is not even going to be a strategic attack. it is going to really advance the cause of weakening assad's military force. so this is what we have seen the united states do in the '80s and '90s, lob a few missiles into a foreign country to send a message. but as richard wolf says the only message we send is that the united states isn't capable of doing anything but sending a message. if all we are going to do is send a message why do anything at all? >> i think this might be a little bit different, joe, from the other instances you cited in that the setup for this with all of the information coming out of washington is to when this attack might take place, where it might take place, what the

objective of the attack is including almost down to the specific targets of the attack. this is a little different in that we are sending a message to assad that you are going to be punished for using chemical weapons and the funpunishment i coming. we don't want you to overreact to it. you are going to get a spanking. just stay there and take your spanking. perhaps the objective is to force him to a negotiating pposition. we are going to find that out obviously in the coming days ahead. >> but a failed attack that only takes down the regime, won't that strengthen assad. won't he thumb his nose at the united states? >> he could. we are going to find that out in the coming days. i think the objective of the attack is not to widen an

already horrendous war. reverend al, i don't know about you but i have not been that shocked by all of the information coming out of washington about the con tours of the attack down to as i indicated almost specific targets. >> i think the number that you have is not only should you engage in a full attack that would lead to regime change which they clearly said is not the objective of this administration but i am sensing some of the reluctancies that we don't know who we are empowering. it is almost like you are dealing with some that feel that the guy that we have is bad but he is the bad guy we know. we don't know what comes behind him. i think part of the reluctancy that we do not need to power assad more with the arab world but who are we going to empower if you remove assad? there are a lot of unanswered

questions here. >> thank you for being on this morning. tune in tomorrow live from the factory floor of the ford auto plant where we will be talking to the and women who are breathing life back into the american city. we will have live interviews with the ceo of ford, dan gilbert and justin verlander. first here is a check on the forecast. >> we are going to see the chance of some fog maybe slowing things down a bit up near logan

airport in boston. it should turn into a decent day. cleveland raining heavy right now. you could see delays in the morning. same for pittsburgh, too. washington, d.c., we will keep an eye out for scattered showers and storms. 79 in chicago. in minneapolis it will feel like it is above 100 degrees. we have excessive heat warnings in effect. there you see the heavy rain inching closer and closer to the washington, d.c. area. it should hold off again until later on this afternoon. with all the activities out there that could be an issue. temperatures look hot. we are going to top out in the upper 90s. you are watching "morning joe."

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a syrian hacker group is taking credit for the shut downs of the "new york times" website yesterday. the site was down for several hours before the issue was resolved around 6 p.m. the hackers support syrian president bashar al assad and frequently target media outlets. experts say the attack is serious because of the advanced skill level used. wal-mart announced a plan to offer health insurance and other benefits to domestic partners including those of the same-sex. the largest gay rights group called it a historic move and the announcement comes as other employers are changing their coverage to become more restrictive in the face of increased costs coming from

obama care. now the wal-mart addition is a really big one. let's go to the independent. there may be a link between television, computer games and depression in children. a study by public health england finds spending more than four hours a day in front of the screen can lead to an increase in childhood anxiety. and from the washington post scientists believe they know why a large number of dolphins are dying. typically that number is below 40. officials believe the same virus that causes the measles disease in humans is causing the outbreak. scientists say the virus is not going to have an impact on beach goers, though. houston chronicle. twerk, selfy are among new

words. classified as a verb, the definition of twerk. >> it is a popular dance to music in a sexually provocative manner involving thrusting hip movements and a low squatting stance. most represent phrases which frequently come into use. numerous school districts are cutting ties with the national school lunch program which aims to provide students with healthy lunches. the school cafeterias claim they are losing money because kids aren't buying food. one of the strangest segues came this morning on "way too early". our hard working -- i don't know what he is a correspondent of.

>> you couldn't think of anything. >> i was trying to call him something and i couldn't. he was talking about twerking and this oxford dictionary deal. his segue to the next story was this. you know vladimir putin -- he just goes to a putin story straight from twerking. >> king of the segues. >> rough around the edges. >> king of the segues was just a little jarring. so i have no segue. let's talk about 3:00 a.m. manicures. >> the chief white house correspondent mike allen has a look at the play book. good morning. here is what joe was talking about. the new jersey senate race between corey booker and the republican is now getting personal. mayor booker gave an interview

to the washington post where he spoke about his private life including rumors that he is gay. booker who is single quoted saying how unfair is it to a young lady to put them in the spot light if they haven't signed up for that yet? and people who think i'm gay, some part of me thinks it's waufrl because i want to challenge people on their home phobia. that is in the interview yesterday in the "washington post." and then his rival called booker's answer, quote, weird but didn't stop there. he went on saying as a guy i personally like being a guy. booker likes to go out at 3:00 in the morning for a manicure and a pedicure. it was described as hisphetic. i have a more peculiar fetish.

i like a good scotch and a cigar. he says it helps him with the gay vote by acting ambiguous. help us wade through this. does it add up to anything at the end of the day? >> no. because corey booker is going to win this race. he is the favorite. after all, who doesn't go out for a manicure or a pedicure? >> at 3:00 a.m. in the morning. >> that is the troubling part. corey booker in this interview is trying to say you do what you want to do at 3:00 a.m. in the morning and i will do what i want to do. in this interview corey booker went on to say that he is trying to learn about washington. he is looking ahead in his

textbook for learning about washington. mark was on "morning joe" talking about that. corey booker was trying to get away from that element. this is giving lonegan something to talk about because he is losing this race. >> what is the relationship with governor chris christie. we know governor booker and christie have worked together on a few different things including education. what is it like between the two? >> they are close. that is part of the reason that he became a candidate. that is part of the reason that chris christie has scheduled these elections the way he did. the whole chris christie strategy coming out of the special election and his own reelection coming out at november is to show he can win a broader coalition. we already saw governor christie hinting at that message at the

governor's gathering a few months earlier this summer. so chris christie is hoping that the narrative that comes out of new jersey this fall will be that republicans can win much wider than they have in the past. >> then, of course, steve lonegan came out on the side of rand paul a few weeks ago. >> goodness gracious. >> it is complicated. >> and then drank some scotch and had a cigar. and spit. >> i don't see governor christie as a big mani/pedi guy. i just don't. >> i don't know. he is a sensitive man. >> i'm glad we had this conversation. >> nice. >> let's go grill. >> as you point out, mike, it is very unlikely that he will defeat corey booker.

that is a look at the play book. >> let's go grill. next on "morning joe" just when things look up for the yankees we will have the latest on robinson's hand in sports. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business. one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unlimited talk and text on smart phones. now, everyone's in the spirit of sharing. hey, can i borrow your boat this weekend? no. [ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪ at&t mobile share for business. hi, hi, i'm sherri. and i'm going to show sherri

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time for some sports and east coast new york media bias. we begin with the new york yankees taking on the blue jays. robinson canoe takes a fastball. mri came out negative. soriano two home runs, 400th of his career. yankees win the game still hanging around in the wild card. shane victorino helped in the pasting of the orioles. all about leather. two teams, robby grossman, a nice diving catch on a soft line

drive there. next inning he snags this sinking liner. chicago won the game 4-3. they creep to within 21 out of first place. they are the most profitable, forbes says the astros on pace for $99 million in profit this season making them the most profitable team in history. really? >> they have a payroll. >> check out this play. angels taking the field when c.j. wilson just eats it. oo just falls on his face. the new york mets traded

marlon byrd to pittsburgh yesterday. last night was marlon byrd t shirt night at citi field. mets fans were supposed to get this free byrd shirt for their hero. he is now playing for the pirates. the mets did beat the phillies. >> other playoff baseball the tampa bay rays lost to the angels. oakland beat detroit. braves won again and the pirates lost to the brewers. >> come on pirates. >> went 3 for 4, two rbis in my softball game. >> you laid down a couple doubles? >> i hit a couple, no one. >> did they bring out the respirator? let's go to the u.s. open. 296th ranked victoria duval

stunned samantha stoeser. it is her first win against a top 20 opponent. her family comes from haiti. her father was actually buried in the rubble in the earthquake three years ago and had to be dug out of the rubble. >> that's an incredible story. more drama from the new york jets camp. the team signed former green bay packers quarterback. he was released after losing out to vince young in green bay for the number two spot. harrell expected to report with the team today. another quarterback joins on the jets roster. rex says he may not make anyone a starter until opening day, day of the game. bring in more quarterbacks. still ahead on "morning joe" governor rick snyder joins us

ahead of tomorrow's special show in detroit. we'll discuss what the state is doing to jump start the economy of that city.

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was a powerful testament to the enduring dream that my father, martin luther king shared with our nation and the world a half a century ago. as we look back on the march we are called not object to celebrate the legacy of that day but also to address the festering injustices of inequality, racism and poverty in this country. although significant progress has been made in some areas, too many americans have inadequate opportunities to escape discriminati discrimination, social neglect and violence. as i reflect back i think what would dad think? one thing i am certain he would do is work relentessly to get us all to work together to address today's most pressing issues.

>> powerful words from martin luther king's son. what you were talking about how this speech may be the greatest political speech given in american history along with gettysburg and fdr's inaugural address. what do we expect to hear today? what should we hear today from this president who is obviously such a historic figure himself? >> i think the dream is not yet reality and the work of america, to use a phrase that president obama uses a great deal, is to try to make perfect an imperfect union. you know, mike mentioned this before, too. i think president obama is a realistic figure. he's a very pragmatic politician. prag matt pamatic politicians a

ones that become president. he would take this opportunity to make the argument that we defeated jim crow but that the circle of opportunity is not yet wide enough. i think that he would say probably that dr. king in this position at this hour in the life of the country would be pressing for economic equality and equality of opportunity which was, in fact, what dr. king was doing in 1968 when he was murdered. he was leading the poor people's campaign in washington. i think this is one of the most fascinating chapters about how politics really works is the civil rights movement offers us an amazing case study because we had the march on washington 28th of august in 1963. and then the terrorist attack on the 16th street baptist church in birmingham in september. and then the murder of president

kennedy in dallas in november. and then a man who was in the room late this afternoon 50 years ago when the leaders of the march went to the white house to call on president kennedy the vice president lyndon johnson went to work in 1964 and 1965 and used all of his legislative skill as a texan who had helped gut the 1957 civil rights act, as someone who was distrusted by the white liberal establishment. he did everything he could to make the civil rights act happen and the voting rights act happen. politics, as ever, is a messy complicated business, highly provisional. it was dr. king who articulated the vision that so many other people who shed their blood both advertently and innocently who made this happen. still ahead on "morning joe," senator john mccain says

the obama administration's actions have given syria's assad a quote green light to use chemical weapons. we will ask him to explain what he means by that. first paintings of vladimir putin that are causing a stir in russia and drawing the attention of authorities. that's next in news you can't use. hmm...fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. yep, everybody knows that. well, did you know some owls aren't that wise? don't forget i'm having brunch with meghan tomorrow. who? meghan, my coworker. who? seriously? you've met her like three times. who? (sighs) geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. i tthan probablycare moreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years.

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it's time, right? >> we have a putin story. i know you have been working on your twerking. new york post has a guide to twerking. >> what is wrong with people. >> step by step instructions. there are four steps it would appear here. >> thank you very much. thanks. i don't need it, actually. >> america's greatest newspaper. vladimir putin not known for his sense of humor. a couple of paintings causing a stir, one showing putin brushing prime minister's hair while wearing women's lingeri. russia has a lar against

insulting authorities. i don't have a lot to day about that. >> so that's the end of news you can't use? that's what you've got? seriously. >> that's weak. >> there's not something else we could talk about. >> richard wolf is at the table. >> what is wrong with painting dogs and cats like president bush. >> do we have paintings to show? there you go. >> that is art. >> you couldn't do that. >> i think we should talk about the vest. >> that's more interesting. >> exactly. >> those are really good. he is a good painter. >> what do you have going there, carl? >> he knew the designer.

>> what is that? >> as you can see here the great carl joins the conversation. more "morning joe" when we come back. the humble back seat. we believe it can be the most valuable real estate on earth. ♪

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on august 28, 1963 i was 17 years old. i knew that martin luther king was scheduled to give the speech

so i made sure i was home. it was during summer vacation between my junior and senior year in high school. so i was home sitting in a white leather reclining chair in our den and i turned the speech on. >> let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of new york. let freedom ring from the alleghenys of pennsylvania. >> i don't think the fundamental meaning of the speech has changed at all. i still think it is poetic and powerful and beautiful and wise. >> live look at the mall in washington. at the top of the hour welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnacle still with us. joining us carl bernstein. former adviser to president obama and msnbc contributor david axelrod. and in washington and host of

"the daily run down" chuck todd. and john meacham is still with us from nashville. looking at the beautiful shot at the mall in washington. >> absolutely gorgeous. carl bernstein was there as a reporter covering the speech. as you look at the gloria of the sunrise and think back to the moment 50 years ago. was carl bernsteen wearing that vest 50 years ago. i don't understand the vest. but, two -- >> me neither at this point. i don't know what else to tell you. >> how i would have loved to be in your shoes 50 years ago. can you do your best and try to take us to that moment what it was like to be a part of a crowd

and a moment that might have been the greatest speech in american political history. >> i think it was the greatest moment i have experienced as an american citizen. i was covering it. i was 19 years old, for the washington star. when he said those words there was a chill. nobody i think actually quite understood the gravity of what he was saying but the gravity of the moment was so extraordinary. the numbers of people have never been seen marching together for any cause in washington before. also, my mother was in the march, my grandmother was in the march. my sisters were in the march. i was covering it. this was a moment in american history when black, white, unions, people of good will came together including some great

southern whites and said this is enough. we cannot treat people in this country as we have. we have got to move to another day. that is what the speech was about. it was about liberating all of us. it was about liberating white people, not just black people. i watch that now and i have the same -- it is very hard to hold back the emotions. >> i completely agree with you. you feel movement. >> be there in that moment. it was not a festival. it was purposeful. it was dead serious and people who were there could not believe what had been accomplished even before king started to talk. and people were walking with those signs. a. philip randolph, martin luther king, walter ruther, the great labor leader. people who had never come

together quite like this before and you knew that american history was changing by action of people, not by the leadership of the country. the leadership of the country was dragged into this. this was about people who said enough of being indecent to our citizens. >> and seeing the speech even today brings you back to the very moment. listen to the power of these words. >> i have a dream my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. i have a dream today. >> as we look at these pictures, i think back to the changes that happened so quickly because of martin luther king and because of that speech and because of the actions of so many people

across the southeast and across the nation and the world. tell us, again, the importance of this speech. you rank it historically as perhaps the most significant in american history? >> i think it is the most significant between after gettysburg. because i think it is arguable that we have three great set pieces in american history. we have jefferson articulating the promise of america in the summer of 1776. you have lincoln trying to ratify it and extend it at gettysburg in 1863. and then you have dr. king arguing that what jefferson and lincoln put in motion had not yet reached the fullness of the populous and had not been ultimately honored in the image that he used. the american check was bouncing. there was not the capital, the jefferson yn/lincoln capital

about equality. if you look at pieces of oratory this was among the three or four most important things ever said in a public setting in american life. when you think about how many speeches are given and how many words are said by politicians, by aspiring politicians, by all of us, that, i think, we remember so few things. and yet we remember this because of its clarity and because of its passion. and someone else covering the march that day with carl was james resten, the washington bureau chief of the "new york times" who noted that the politicians would have to pay attention because the march had two critical things politicians always heeded. it had numbers and it had passion. and i think that critically without king's address there

were many other speeches that day. without king's extemporized remarks about the dream i don't think the day would have been as important in american life. >> let's turn now to syria. senior u.s. officials say air strikes against the assad regime could begin as soon as tomorrow. leaders from england and france reportedly are considering joining the u.s. in the joint military operation. attempts by the white house to build a broad coalition seem unlikely as several members have declined to back military strikes. for members of the obama administration there is no doubt the so-called red line has been crossed. >> we are considering are not about regime change. they are about responding to a clear violation of an international standard that prohibits the use of chemical weapons. >> there is no doubt who is responsible for this heinous use

of chemical weapons in syria. the syrian regime. >> the united states department of defense is ready to carry out those options. if that would occur, that would occur in coordination with our international partner. >> you are ready to go like that? >> we are ready to go like that. >> you listen to that. it is clear that some sort of an attack targeted or otherwise is imminent from the united states on syria. but we talked about this in our last hour after a dozen years of war this country is very weary and wary of going into a war even if it's sold as a limited war. how do we know going in that this will be tomahawk cruise missiles and then get out clean? because that has not been the history? >> well, of course, that is the calculation that the president is making right now.

people talk about how deliberate he has been. that is one of the considerations. remember, this is a president who got elected largely on the strength of the fact that he opposed or launched by the fact that he opposed the war in iraq. it was a war of undetermined length, cost and consequences. he is very, very aware of that. certainly that is one of the considerations. the other is what you mentioned which is there is a reason why the arab league voted the way they did. the arab street will view an attack warily. that is why this is about responding to a specific heinous act. and reverend sharpton mentioned you have to consider what are the consequences of a pg lengthy engagement in terms of what happens after. all of these things are under

consideration as they choose their steps very, very carefully. >> chuck todd, what are the conversations happening today? what are the conversations happening inside the situation room in the white house about how limited or unlimited to go with this strike? >> the last 24 hours have been about trying to build an international coalition. the decision to do something has been made. there is a debate about what to do. there is an acknowledgment that can you hit them hard enough that he realizes there is a penalty for using chemical weapons because there was an acknowledgment. if he uses it again what are you going to do? we have to hit him again if he uses it again. that is the slippery slope here. if you hit him, send a message, but the message issant received and he decides to continue to use chemical weapons then that

means the united states has to do this again. and then that is what you were just talking about with david which is this issue of here we go. this is how you get dragged into a longer and longer situation which is something that the united states is trying to avoid. >> so i don't really understand, what is the goal when you have the woups sending signals. they don't support regime change. the white house sending signals that they are not going to have a significant enough impact strike to impact really the arc of the war. and you have basically what looks like lobbing a few tactical missiles into a region where you don't have any strategy. i'm certainly not supporting the attacks. i'm not supporting a war. i'm just saying, though, the white house based on their

comments doesn't seem to have any strategy whatsoever in syria. and so they are lobbing a couple of missiles over there, talking about it. if that is the case, why do anything at all? >> it does seem that they need to outline the goal. what is the goal? is the goal to prevent assad from using chemical weapons again? if that is the goal then state it and figure out how to achieve it. and it seems that that is what the goal is here which is to punish him enough where he will not use chemical weapons anymore. but they don't seem to be saying it with that kind of clarity. >> they certainly don't. and john mccain was complaining about the fact that assad has already used chemical weapons once. he paid no price for it so he used chemical weapons again. if we launch a strike against him to just send a message then

the only message we send is that we are impotent and can't really do anything about it if he uses chemical weapons again. i think before the president launches any attacks he needs to tell us why the hell we are doing it, what the grand strategy is. >> i think probably reading between the lines the grand strategy to underline it is to punish assad for the past use of chemical weapons. >> he doesn't punish assad. if assad just takes a couple of missile strikes and then waves his fist at the united states and says the great satan attacks me and i am still standing. >> the danger is to risk escalculation. you cannot go after the plants.

the chemicals would disperse in the air or freed up for the rebels. so the only goal that you can sense that has been defined thus far is to punish the syrian regime. now, the extent to that punishment we will find out what it is with the attacks. my question to chuck is in your talks with people in the administration now, people who are there now, can they define -- you use the word international coalition. it is our tomahawk missiles. not france's or great britain. >> right. it is -- frankly even with libya even though we were leading from behind. it was our planes. it was our military resources that was the lion's share of that operation. that is going to be the same

thing here. but this whole -- you know, you saw the calls that the president has been making. turkey being involved is a big deal. that is very helpful. you will probably build a coalition. you assume the saudis who are involved will do the same thing here. they seem to be saying that. we are hopeful that the arab league would have a stronger statement than what they came out with. assad had a lot of political leverage for years. i'm not surprised that it ended up being muted while saying stern language about chemical weapons not calling for military response. that was something that the administration didn't think. they didn't think we are going to get it but they were hopeful. >> we'll get one more story in

here. senator jeff flake under fire by a conservative group for not pledging to defund obama care. the senate conservatives fund released this radio ad attacking the junior senator. >> whatever, that is what senator jeff flake said when urged to defund obama care. he used to be one of us but now he has become one of them. oh, whatever, that is something we expect john mccain to say, not jeff flake. >> do you think he said it that way. >> keep talking about one of us and keep defining our politics in this kind of manner are despicable. if we can't start getting to solving our problems through looking at what we need to do in this country and we have this kind of rhetoric we are never going to solve our problems. it is just awful that all people

can do such as that is come up with an idea logical response. obama care, romney care. let's look at the republican origins of this kind of health care program. >> conservative came up with the concept. >> let's what obama was against, a public planet that his party was pushing. he was against it when he decided i want to under write this privately through the existing agencies. this is nuts already with the right wing and the way that they are defining our politics. >> tell us how you really feel. oh, whatever? >> jeff flake was a small government conservative before the people that decided to fund this campaign against him actually put it out there. it is absolutely ridiculous. all they are doing is actually weakening their own position because flake like so many of us has over a decade long record as

a small government conservative in washington, d.c. these people come into town and thigh think they invented conservatism is. they didn't. they haven't fought the fights that jeff flake has fought. they can come talk to us in about ten years if they think the best thing to do is to shut down the government and basically put that much power in president obama's hand. david axelrod used to be the communication director, political strategist for barack obama. could anything help barack obama anymore than the republicans shutting down the government to try to defund obama care? >> no. it would be an enormously destructive act. most of the republicans have said that. what is going on -- >> most of them have. that is an important point to

make. most republicans have said that. i'm glad you are making that point. these people are actually marginalizing themselves more every single day. >> they are also pandering to a stituency. look who is leading the fight, ted cruz, rand paul, rubio, people who want to run for president. they want to command the right wing base in the republican party. and this is red meat for that stituency. this isn't about the good of the country. this is about pandering to the base to try to get advantage in 2016. >> thank you very much. chuck todd, thank you, as well. we'll see you at 9:00 a.m. john meacham thank you, as well. tomorrow we'll be broadcasting live from the factory floor of the ford auto plant in detroit.

we'll take a hard look at the bankruptcy issue. later today rick snyder stops by to tell us what the state is doing. also this morning senator mccain has harsh words for the obama administration's handling of syria. he joins us live. ray kelly will be here. up next here to celebrate the 50th anniversary of martin luther king's march on washington, texas congressman and former npr host, michelle norris. keep it right here. discover card. how can i help you? oh, you're real? you know i'm real! at discover, we're always here to talk. good, 'cause i don't have time for machines. some companies just don't appreciate the power of conversation! you know, i like you! i like you too! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you.

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when we let it ring from every bit, from every state and every city we will be able to be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old negrospiritual, free at last, free at last. we are free at last. >> welcome back to "morning joe." exactly 50 years ago martin luther king jr. gave his epic "i have a dream" speech that electrified the civil rights movement. and from capitol hill cast rospeaking later today. and from washington time contributor and npr host, michelle norris. good to have you both on the

show this morning. michelle writes about the speech. in partd, you write this. i realize as king was reaching out over the crowd he might as well have been reaching up to touch the sun. in some ways the america of today has even exceeded what he allowed himself to envision. 50 years after king gave his speech another black man wim stand at the lincoln memorial to address the masses, this time at a electern embellished with a presidential seal. but are we using the right mile stick? 85% of black and latino households have a net worth that falls below the median wealth for white house holds. take about trying to touch the sun. >> michelle, off of that excerpt

from the "time" magazine piece today we commemorate one epic moment with another epic moment, the president of the united states standing on the steps of the lincoln memorial where martin luther king stood 50 years ago and our long american struggle towards justice. and yet today the emphasis might well be on economics as well as on race and class. don't you think so? >> well, the emphasis 50 years ago was also on economics. one of the things that you realize when you look back 50 years at dr. king's speech is that his dream, as wonderful as it was and as eloquent as his language was in some ways upstaged his to-do list. he could have stood at the lincoln memorial and said i have a to-do list and it dealt with jobs and housing and economic equality. so that was a big issue then. it is an even more important issue now because the roots of

inequality in this country now are largely economic. that wealth gap is quite large. it is not getting smaller. it is getting wider. >> let's remember what the name of this march was. it was the march on washington for jobs and for freedom. the word jobs actually came first. and that message with dr. king went on for the rest of his life, the idea of economic justice as a way of liberating all people in this country. and today we have a juncture where really perhaps the great issue is the possibility of a plutalkeracy. we have seen our income gap get wider and wider. we have got to narrow this gap. we have huge wealth in this country and at the same time real income not just for black

people in this country, for working people real income has declined ntd last 20 years. this is the terrible thing dr. king's message resounds. >> you have a minority that cannot live on the money they work for. >> not just minorities anymore. >> we are going to cover the fast food workers tomorrow. how do you fix this? you have come to washington. what are the plans? what are the barriers that you are facing? >> well, i think what dr. king and those in the civil rights movement understood well is that there are a few things that have made america special among the nations of the world. the first, of course, freedom and also democracy and also the fact that in america we have built up a infrastructure of opportunity that allows people to achieve their american dreams

or at least pursue them. when we talk about access to higher education, good public education, being able to work at a job that pays a county wage those are fundamental to the success of america and americans. sometimes i feel as though we have forgotten that we have to keep building and taking care of that infrastructure of opportunity if future generations of americans are going to be able to rise up socioeconomically. that includes not only minorities but all americans. >> the president likes to say that his policies, if any, help all americans. they are also going to help people at the lower end of the scale, african-americans, latinos. my sense is that is probably not enough today. maybe he needs to address the kinds of things you talk about in the "time" magazine article and the things the congressman

mentioned with a specific agenda targeted at communities that have struggled for too long really against institutional problems. you are talking about generation after generation not having enough capital to pass from one family to another and struggling with failing schools and failing infrastructure. so do you expect him to come up with some specific agenda targeted towards the people that really dr. king was speaking to that day? >> it's quite possiblet that he will have a specific agenda or will talk specifically about that. i think you can probably expect he will talk not just about legislative remedies or government remedies but also the attitudes that we have because some of what we are dealing with and some of the roots of inequality are not just about legislative action and not just things governments can do with the sweep of a pen to legislate the way people think. and what i wrote in the piece

about the geography of the mind that is what i was talking about. the people who marched in washington asked for equality and they got the quest for integration. so it is harder to legislate what people think and how they think and attitudes that they have. you can't legislate away the way people respond to a young black kid if they are automatically afraid of him or a young latino kid if they have expectations of whether or not they speak english. those are the things the president has been willing to talk about to confront. it is hard to talk about race. and it is very hard for politicians to talk about race. and this president has shown a certain degree of courage in taking those things on. he will talk about the economic agenda and about the we, the idea that all americans have to be introspective and look inside themselves and figure out what they can do to contribute to

this larger quest for equality. >> thank you. congressm congressman castro, thank you, as well. msnbc will be playing dr. king's entire "i have a dream" speech today at 4 p.m. ♪ o beautiful for spacious skies ♪ for centuries, the hopes, dreams and promise of this great nation... has been shaped by the african american experience. now comes a museum to honor this legacy... and finally tell their story. tell all our stories. a story of courage. a story of achievement.

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next, can manufacturing make a comeback in the united states. that is the topic of apnew documentary and the film makers join us next. "morning joe" will be right back.

have you thought about the people involved in the game beyond the coaches and players? what about the folks who make the bats, gloves, baseball and

individuals in the gift shops. as the market place becomes saturated with companies trying to gain a leg up on another, no matter if you realize it or not we have a relationship with the things that we make and buy in this country. >> that was a clip from the upcoming documentary, "american made movie". very good to have you both on. looking at your back grounds this concept is in your family legacies. >> absolutely. we had family in manufacturing growing up so it was always a part of life. you know, i think that the most interesting thing is the change that we have seen in response to the film. seeing people that maybe don't have a direct connection to manufacturing realize that they have a relationship to the products that they buy and the things we make in the country. we are excited to get more

people to see it and experience it and change across america. >> one of the interesting things in that clip and we are showing pictures of it now, the brief clip we showed you, you have new balance spikes made in the usa. you have gloves made in texas. do you hope that one of the objectives of this film and other aspects of the film would be to make more people think about what they purchase, where it is made before they purchase it? >> i think consumer demand is what changes everything. i think it symbols supply and demand issues. companies are going to notice that and then they are going to bring on new lines to produce new products or continue producing products. i think our goal with the film is to show that everyone is a consumer whether you are rich, middle class or a single mom.

if we can put our spending power to things that matter with that label that is local, state level or national level it can change things. >> you mentioned new balance. it is the last shoe manufacturer. >> absolutely. >> there is a reason why, right? >> they had to make a conscious effort to make shoes in the united states. they kind of made it their staple to continue to make shoes there for aerary long time. >> that is part of the problem is they have to make the conscious effort. why? >> i think labor costs are never going to even out but manufacturing has changed in america in a way that it takes fewer workers because we are relying on technology or automation to require a technical background to manage a machine. it has changed but we will never be able to compete with the

prices. at the same time we have to realize that while the face of manufacturing has changed the supply and demand still comes into play. if people demand the products they are cost comparative. the same price for a pair of nikes is new balance so why is nike overseas? >> isn't there a problem ofnic policy in which we need to find a way -- i don't know the answer, to accept globalization and come up with a way of what are the products? identify the products that we can do to help our own workers, to help our own country and at the same time cede other products to elsewhere around the world and come up with some way to encourage manufacturing in this country that is cost effective that fits in line with our national profile?

we are never going to be able to compete on some things that are done without $1 an hour wages. what are those products? what can we do and what can't we do? >> i think we are seeing innovation take the main staple but without replication and without making a lot of things, the iphone is a really cool device. we like to champion how awesome it is. it wouldn't be that cool if there weren't like a million of them on the planet. we can do these things. i think we are seeing companies start to take notice of the power of the american brand. one thing you won't find new balance doing but another shoe company doing is you have the celebrity endorsements. the american worker is pretty cool. i think you are seeing people notice that like appleal is making a computer here. motorola saying they are going

to make a phone here. they see that demand and see the american consumer caring about that and they want to jump on that. >> is there limited protectionism? >> it's hard because you know we ask government to do so much. and i think that ultimately when it comes to the relationships where we have to be able to attract foreign investment and make them feel like this is a place that can come we need to realize that sometimes more regulation is something that, you know, is only going to hurt things longer with our relationships with the other countries. ultimately i think film making, for instance. a lot of states are attracting people to film. i think the same thing should be done for manufactures. we want you to stay in our country or continue to make things here to make it attractive for businesses to do

that. >> over the last 30 years and probably over the past 20 we have seen the deterioration of american manufacturing jobs in this country. in making the film anecdotally did you pick up resentment or feedback about the passage of the naftalegislation? >> you are seeing 30 years of history with 50% after world war ii to rapidly changing it to this very global economy. so the stories we tell in the film are small manufacture company competing in the global economy, going through day to day challenges, the up and down story of manufacturing. and the film really kind of puts you in the day to day life of the manufacturers while wrapping it around the history to understand kind of where we have been and the future where we are

going. and, of course, we kind of took that consumer demand approach just because if consumers demand things companies figure out a way to answer that call. if companies are trying to figure out a way to answer the call they are usually calling their legislators and getting d.c. in line. at the end of the day the manufacturers are the ones that kind of know what helps them and hurts them. >> "american made movie" will be out in theaters this friday. thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you for having us. tomorrow we will be broadcasting live from the floor of the ford auto plant in detroit, michigan. and here for our preview of tomorrow's show michigan governor rick snyder will join us in a few minutes. we're live on the front line next. you're watching "morning joe."

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52 past the hour. we're going to update you now on the wildfires in of where the flames of the rim fire have been burning for 12 days now and is still only 20% contained. it's now threatening thousands of homes.

nbc's miguel joins us live. >> reporter: this is where some of the more than 4,000 firefighters come after their shift. they sleep where they can. many in their rigs. others in the open, in cots. this fire is roughly 20% contained because of their work around the clock. before sunrise at base camp outside yosemite national park, a briefing and a pep talk. >> it's going to get a little hairy. >> reporter: the chief knows his team faces a monster. >> you got to reassure them. you got to let them joke a little bit. otherwise, they'd be crying. >> reporter: igniting controlled burns overnight, crews cleared dried fuel before the wildfire can reach it. the trees and brush haven't burned or been cleared here in decades. that's the problem, says this environmentalist. >> if congress had provided enough funds to do fuel work and prescribed burning, the devastation of hot fire runs could have been greatly reduced.

>> reporter: with 287 square miles destroyed, it's from the air where the scope of this fire is realized. all along these ridges, we can see more spot fires. there's no doubt this fire is growing and certainly quickly on the move. >> reporter: the view from 10,000 feet jaw dropping. the aerial assault the only tactical option available out here. there it goes. 3,000 gallons of fire retardant, doing what it can to stop the advance of the flame. >> reporter: in the air, on the ground, day and night, the firefight outside yosemite is nearly two weeks old with no end in sight. >> wow. there's really no other way to describe it. >> reporter: though this firefight continues today, in the flank of this fire, they are making progress. 4,500 homes are still threatened. 31 have been destroyed. >> let's go over to dylan dreyer now with a look at the weather

conditions. >> they really need some rain to help wetten up the ground to help this fire stop from spreading, but the conditions we have in that area, very, very dry. we have humidity levels at about the 20%. so what triggers some of these fires, you have these thunderstorms and it's too dry to rain, so you have the lightning without the rain. that's your spark for these fires. but with temperatures in the s upper 80s, certainly that makes it harder for these firefighters fighting these flames. the winds help to fuel the flames. when it's spreading these flames into brush that's already dried out, it's only going to help spread the fire even more. so what we need more than anything right now is some rain but unfortunately the pattern keeps all the rain just to the north of california and it doesn't look like that's going to change any time soon. so the heat sticks around. the lack of any rain is going to be in the forecast for quite some time. and still those gusty winds only help to push those flames further and further.

so unfortunately, it doesn't look like we're going to see any help from mother nature as we continue -- as the firefighters continue to fight these flames. up next, senator john mccain joins us live to discuss the escalating situation in syria. also, michigan governor rick snyder joins us with the latest on what his city is doing. and vocal supporter of the stop and frisk policy ray kelly joins us straight ahead. [ male announcer ] this is jim,

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on august 28th, 1963, i was 17 years old. i knew that martin luther king was scheduled to give the speech. so i made sure i was home. it was during summer vacation. between my junior and senior year in high school. so i was home sitting in this white leather reclining chair in our den. and i turned the speech on. >> let freedom ring. from the mighty mountains of new york. let freedom ring from the heightening alleghenies of pennsylvania. >> i still think it is poetic and powerful and beautiful and

wise. welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour. as you take a live look at the washington monument and down the mall to the lincoln memorial where 50 years ago today, martin luther king delivered a speech that still rings today, rings out today, and changed this country and our society in so many ways. and of course the president of the united states, as we take a live look at the mlk memorial tomb in atlanta, georgia. if you haven't taken your children there, you really need to do that. today, president obama will go 50 years later and deliver a speech today that certainly will mark the extraordinary progress we've made over the past 50 years. you know, willie, there's going to be a backdrop though, sadly, a backdrop to this moment that a lot of people have been looking forward to for six months now. and that is of course the

possibility of warfare and u.s. troops once again being sent in to action. with what's going on in syria. >> president obama, 2 years old at the time of martin luther king jr.'s speech 50 years ago, now finds himself president of the united states with a big decision. air strikes could begin as soon as tomorrow. leaders from england and france reportedly also considering joining the u.s. in a joint military operation. attempts by the white house to build a broad coalition seem unlikely as several leaders of arab countries as well as the arab league have declined to back military strikes. for members of the obama administration, there's no doubt the so-called red line has been crossed. >> the options that we are considering are not about regime change. they are about responding to a clear violation of an international standard that prohibits the use of chemical weapons. >> there's no doubt who is

responsible for this heinous use of chemical weapons in syria. the syrian regime. >> the united states department of defense is ready to carry out those options. if that would occur, that would occur also in coordination with our international partner. >> but if the order comes, you're ready to go like that? >> we're ready to go like that. >> let's bring in right now senator john mccain. he's in phoenix, arizona. senator mccain, you've had some tough words for the president of the united states up to this point. what does he need to say? what does he need to do in syria to gain your support? >> well, the president needs to stick to his word. two years ago, he said bashar al assad must go. he has to articulate a policy that we have towards a conflict that is engulfing the region. by the way, there is no way that

there will be american boots on the ground. no one would support such a thing. so you can rule that out. but we need to have a policy. we need to assist those who are fighting against the overwhelming odds russian military equipment, iran yabs, 5,000 hezbollah on the ground in an unfair fight. we need to take out bashar assad's air, which we can very easily, and give them the weapons they need to succeed in the establishment of a safe zone. the president two years ago said bashar assad has to leave. a year ago he said the red line of use of chemical weapons. we know they've used them. they just haven't used them to this degree. so the american people need to know what our policy is. >> senator, the president of the

united states, of course, weighing all military options, but already his people that work for him are letting us know that regime change is not in the cards. is that a mistake? do you believe the president should support regime change in syria? >> the president can say whatever he wants to but isn't it contradictory two years ago he said he must go and now this isn't aimed at regime change? if it isn't aimed at regime change, what is it aimed at? we can send them a diplomatic note if it's just we don't agree with what they're doing. by the way, the leaks of what we're going to do, you know, i've seen leaks in washington before but never to the specificity as this is obviously. the iraqi -- excuse me, obviously bashar is paying attention to that as well. look, we can assure the american people there will not be any american boots on the ground,

but this has turned into a regional conflict. there is more violence in iraq than there's been since 2008. jordan is terribly destabilized by these refugee inflows. lebanon has destabilized. the whole area, this conflict is spreading. you will see effects of that, including one of the first, we are seeing an increase in the price of oil. this conflict cannot be contained within syria. we have to understand that. that's why we've got to help these people get rid of bashar assad. get the momentum back on their side. >> senator, you've been on the ground in syria. you've met with the free syrian army. >> yes. >> how can we be sure in term of defining who we're dealing with among the rebels in terms of our assistance with armaments, with intelligence, how can we be sure who we're dealing with? >> the best we can do that is by the establishment of a safe

zone. have these people there. make sure that the weapons that come in get to the right people. that's the bet way st way to do mike. >> senator mccain, it's willie geist. when people hear about the alleged use of chemical weapons, evidence they've been used, obviously americans go back to 2003 in february and the presentations that were made to the u.n. the white house seems like they're satisfied with what they have before them. we've heard evidence from groups like doctors without boarders that all these people show the effects of having been hit with chemical weapons. are you satisfied with what you see, not only chemical weapons used, but, in fact, used by the assad regime? >> yes, and they've been used before and obviously the free syrian army doesn't have those weapons so it's ludicrous to assume that they would use them. but i think the posh thiimporta also is not to forget 100,000 people have been massacred.

we now have 1 million children who are refugees. by the way, who will grow up to hate us because they feel strongly we have abandoned them, with some justification. we have these countries destabilized in the region. so it's horrific what has happened and the president has yet to really talk directly to the american people about this situation. i think he could get support for supporting these rebels and not for boots on the ground, but assad's air power is really critical in this scenario. he's flying about 50 airliplane about six airfields. >> let's say you hit some of the airfields, take out their chemical weapons capabilities. assad then waves his fist and says, i've survived an attack from the united states. his people rally around him. he is left standing. and still able to, frankly, kill

more civilian because most of the 100,000 civilians you reference was not killed by chemical weapons, it was artillery and thugs going door to door. what changes about his capability if we take out targets in these limited strikes? isn't he left standing and perhaps stronger in some ways? >> willie, i think you may be exactly right. that's why we've got to take out his air assets and crater his runways and to get the weapons in that these people need. it's got to be part of an overall strategy. and, again, we've got to have a policy and i have yet to see a policy or a strategy. >> senator, that's what's actually most disturbing, is it not, that the president of the united states, this administration really hasn't had a policy on syria for the past year or so, two years. we were talking last summer about 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 people dead. we're over 100,000 people now. there was a chemical strike that was ignored.

and you look at the leaks coming out of this administration. and, you know, you differed a lot on foreign policy through the years. but the one thing you and i can always agree on, whether we disagree with the tactics, you need a commander in chief and u.s. foreign policy team that actually has an overarching strategy. on the eve of going into syria, with some attacks, it seems very clear that this administration still has no grand strategy. >> well, i would, in addition, say how do you reconcile the president's statements that bashar has to go? he has said that as long ago as two years ago. and then say, look, what we're doing here don't get us wrong, is not regime change. i don't know how you reconcile those two comments. but look, joe, this is such a tragedy. and in the 1930s, the united states and free nations sat by

and watched bad people do bad things. mussolini, hitler, the civil war in spain, and others. i'm not saying that americans should -- troops should be on the ground, but there's lots of things we can do to assist people that are being massacred as we speak. and again, i understand that americans won't have boots on the ground and i don't want boots on the ground either. one reason is, it would be counterproductive. >> i want to turn to domestic politics for a second here. your na your name was mentioned by a group that claims to be conservative that is going after jeff flake. listen. >> oh, whatever. that's what jeff flake thinks about conservatives. oh, whatever. jeff flake used to be one of us but now he's become one of them. oh, whatever. that's something we expect john mccain to say, not jeff flake.

>> that's kind of funny stuff. the funniest part of that though is -- the funniest part of that is you and i both know jeff flake. we've known jeff for a very long time. jeff is one of the most strident small government conservatives. and he's simply saying i'm not going to shut down the government. it's like taking the wish bone attack to the nfl in 2013 because you like -- we tried shutting down the government, didn't work. don't you think that these groups that are now demanding, you know, no budget deal after we tried to get democrats to put a budget on the floor of the senate for years, are now saying shut down the government, aren't they really pushing themselves off to the extremes as more and more conservatives like scott walker distance themselves? jeff flake, distance themselves from this tactic that just seems to be sheer lunacy?

>> well, you know, one thing they have in common, most of them, is they weren't around when you and i were -- the last time we saw this movie. the first -- at the first moment that a military -- >> had a very bad ending. it strengthens a democratic president when you do it. >> exactly. and when the first check doesn't arrive to the family member of a person fighting in afghanistan, then obviously the american people -- overwhelmingly, by any poll you're looking at, american people don't believe this is the path we should follow. it is a battle that's going to go on in the republican party. we're going to have to have a struggle and a conversation and an open and honest debate about the direction of the republican party. and that debate needs to be held. i liken it a bit to the democrat, the throws the democrats went through in the 1970s. a debate about the future of the

party. not on on this kind of thing, but also isolationism versus internationalism. >> senator, in the hope you'll get into even more trouble with that wing your party, can you give us your feeling what's going to happen, what's going to happen with immigration this fall? is there any hope of getting an immigration bill passed this year? >> jeff and i have been having town hall meetings all over arizona. as you know, it's ground zero in arizona for a whole variety of reasons. and we've received overwhelming support. we have four house members who are republicans in arizona and we're using friendly persuasion. we are trying to ask them to sit down with us and get a vehicle passed through the house. i'm guardedly optimistic. over 70% of the people in arizona support, by 2 to 1 margin, that we provide a mechanism to bring 11 million people out of the shadows and a

path to citizenship. so i remain optimistic to a degree. paul ryan has done a great job. think boehner is trying to balance a lot of different factions within his conference. look, i believe that we can do this. and we keep asking the fundamental question. is it satisfactory to have 11 million people living in the shadows in a de facto amnesty and everybody believes it's not satisfactory. so can't we sit down and get something done? i still believe we can. but it may be after this october shutdown that you and i were just talking about. >> senator, of course, the political side of immigration was much debated and talked about at the 2012 political election. we've seen the margins and i guess that's why this is important to your party. as someone who's run for president, someone who's been in the arena for so long, what is the state of your republican party now as you look to 2016? what kind of candidate needs to

emerge in order for republicans to take back the white house? >> i think it's going to be part of that debate, willie, that i was just talking about, that we have a open and honest discussion about the direction of our party. whether we're going to just withdraw from the world. and that debate, by the way, has been going on since the beginning of the last century. so got to have that debate. it's the old eisenhower/taft, et cetera. also, we're going to have to talk about whether we want to be constructive and be reagan republicans. reagan republicans are people who sit down and work with the other side and reach agreement. reagan and tip o'neill worked together. reagan and the democrats came up with compromises on spending, on taxes, a lot of other things, and ushered in one of the most prosperous periods in american history. and whoever wins that is going to nominate the -- is going to have the open in ni for

president of the republican party. >> why is it when i hear you talking about the eisenhower/taft divide, i'm thinking you're probably painting me as taft and you -- that is a debate that continues. i think both sides, again, agree, we need to have a strategy before we do anything in syria. >> right. i go back to the coolidge administration, as you know, joe. >> silent cal. was a great one. but they did nothing so well. thank you so much, senator. we greatly appreciate it, and willie, boy, a lot of decisions to be made as we move forward. we're going to see it unfold. probably as we're in detroit tomorrow. >> yeah, looks like something this week will happen on syria. senator mccain, thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," the new york city council tells mayor bloomberg hand, off

on the controversial stop and frisk policy. commissioner ray kelly, vocal supporter of that policy, joins us next. next, michigan governor snyder with the latest on what his state is doing to get the city of detroit back on track. ♪ ho ho ho [ female announcer ] at 100 calories,

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♪ you get what you need estimates show that of detroit's 12,000 fires each year, 60% involve blighted and

unoccupied buildings. >> you've got to remove blight in order to begin new growth. the same thing's true in a forest and it is true in a neighborhood and the removal of this blight is part of the strength of this neighborhood. >> at nighttime, you see peep coming in and out of them, you know, looking for a scrap or whatever it it's just a bad situation. i'm glad to see them go. >> welcome back to "morning joe." as we take a live look at detroit. let's bring in the governor right now. we're going to be there tomorrow. obviously, we've got rick snyder with us. so, governor, how are we progressing?ruptcy goes? i understand obviously you still got to have court hearings. how are things moving forward? >> i want to welcome you to michigan tomorrow. i'm sorry i couldn't be with you then. it's great to be with you today. we're making good progress in detroit. that's an important part of the

message. is we're not waiting to go through bankruptcy and then have detroit back. much of detroit is already coming back. and the late obstacle is really this municipal question. about getting better services. the foundation community, the young people moving into detroit. a lot of excite things are really going on. this is our chance to really remove what i hope is the last major obstacle which are getting better services. there's a blight issue. there's other issues. we're going to keep working on them. >> brian schachtman. >> i think a lot of people talked about this aggressive urban planning. are we doing something creative after what happens when we get rid of this blight? it's a city that can handle about 2 million that only has about 700,000 now. it's probably healthy at 1.2 million, right? >> yes, and the good part is,

there's already a good plan that's been put in place. the citizens of detroit for doing that plan. it was a year-long-plus planning process. that's the road map we're using that shows many more green spaces, alternative uses of space, focus on the neighborhoods in terms of getting good strong neighborhoods with good schools. so there's a format in place that we're following already. >> governor, yesterday, a judge upticked the court dates. he moved it from october 23rd to september 18. is it to rule on whether detroit has the right to file bankruptcy under chapter 9? is that what the court case is all about? is it also accurate to say part of the michigan constitution precludes any bankruptcy hearing from reducing pension benefits? >> the first part is an accurate statement. it's really about the eligibility to be in bankruptcy. that's the first stage of going through that process. i appreciate the judge actually mowing the time tatable up.

your second question is more a legal question. the michigan constitution is not that specific about bankruptcy situations. it just talks about diminishing contract rights for pensions and such. so that will be a question that the bankruptcy court probably will ultimately decide. >> a related question, governor. i think i understand your positions on obama care. you want the expansion of the medicaid exchanges. why are you so different than your other republican governors? do you think obama care works? secondly, you don't seem to want to defund. why is your position different? is detroit, is michigan different? or is this something other republican governors should be doing?

>> on the affordable care act, too often people generalize as one massive thing. my view is two components. there are a number of things i am troubled with. one of the positives was looking at medicaid expansion. healthy michigan. which includes a wellness personal responsibility portion to the program. we just got senate approval last night. i look forward to seeing that put in place. it's about helping 470,000 michiganers get health insurance. >> -- texans also -- >> excuse me -- >> say that -- >> wouldn't the same apply in helping texans? >> again, i stay focused on the state of michigan. that's the job i was hired to do. there's an opportunity to help michiganers here. we've had a good track record with medicaid. we've been one of the most efficient states. healthy michigan, which includes an opportunity for people to pay

a premium but also reduce that premium is very much a positive element. i would encourage other states to look at what we're doing. and with respect to pension, again, there's a lot of issues that will go through the bankrupt bankruptcy. but make sure we properly function our liabilities and that's something the public sector really needs to look at. we forecast through the year 2040 here for our liabilities. we put payment plans in place. in many respects, we're going to be paying down most of our liabilities by about 2038. as we stay on track with this plan. >> you have photo i.d. requires in michigan. last year, you vetoed an attempt to beef up those requirements. i'm wondering what you think of the north carolina laws that were recently signed into law. do you think there's more to do in terms of photo i.d.?

>> i stick to my state. that's what i was hired to do. with respect to voters, voting rights are absolute imperative. the issue i had in the past was really looking at what people were required to sign about giving so much information about absentee ballots. >> governor snyder, we appreciate it. we're going to be in detroit tomorrow. i'm going to the tigers game tonight when i get there. hopefully they'll win too. >> go tigers. >> absolutely. coming up, the city council overrules mayor bloomberg on the stop and frisk policy. nypd commissioner ray kelly joins us on that next. more "morning joe" in just a moment. i think she tried to kill us. [ sighs ] are you kidding me? no, it's only 15 calories. [ male announcer ] with reddi wip, fruit never sounded more delicious. mmm. [ male announcer ] with 15 calories per serving and real cream, the sound of reddi wip is the sound of joy.

congestion, for the smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the buses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution into the air. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment.

hey, welcome back to "morning joe." as you take a live look at new york city. with us now, new york police department commissioner ray kelly. ray, an awful lot to talk about. let's start though with an ap story. i believe it's an ap story out there. that's about mosques, claiming that the new york police department is actually casting a -- well, actually, the story says that you guys are

actually -- monitored and they're suspect because that gives you more power to investigate. give us the background on that story. >> yes, i haven't seen that story but they're hyping a book that's coming out next week. actually, the book is based on a compilation of about 50 articles. two ap reporters did on the department. if it's a reflection of the article, then the book will be a fair amount of fiction. it will be lots of quotes from unnamed course sources. our sin is to have the temerity to go into counterterrorism and trying to protect this city by supplementing what the federal government has done. we put these programs in 3 1/2 months after 9/11. 3 1/2 months after 2,800 people died on this island, about three miles away. but this has been the harangue of these two reporters.

and obviously have some assistance from the federal a m alum alumni. so -- >> -- no proof according -- >> i'm sorry? >> there's no truth than the police department's labeling some mosques in the city terrorist organizations? >> we have an greept agreement that has been authorized by -- we follow that to the stipulation and it authorizes us to do a whole series of things. certainly investigations are part of it. we follow leads wherever they take us. we're not intimidated as to where that lead takes us. and we're doing that to protect the people of new york city. we've had 16 plots against new york since september 11. none of them have succeeded. a combination of good work on the part of the federal government, good work on the part of the nypd, and sheer luck. but we are -- sir?

>> you do agree entire mosques should not be labeled terrorist organizations, right? >> of course. we do according to the law. what we're investigating and how we're investigating is done pursuant to a federal judge's direction. >> all right. let's talk about -- let's talk about the stop and frisk controversy. since the judges ruling has your ability to protect citizens of new york city, do you believe your ability's been limited? and where do we go from here? >> if the decision is left to stand, it will. the city is moving to appeal it. in this case, the judge has -- in my judgment -- indicted the entire department on scant evidence, saying that we are engaged in indirect racial

profiling. we're not seen what that means because it's the first time the phrase is used anywhere in the law. their expert looked at 4.4 million stops over a ten-year period. found that 6% of them were unjustified. the judge herself looked at 19 stops. she found t10 of the 19 stops were just fewed. based on that evidence, that information, she found the department guilty of this indirect racial profiling. we believe that the formula that we've used was flawed. many other people do as well. we believe what the rand corporation put forward to us would be a reasonable criteria. and that criteria is whether or not the stops comport to the description of the perpetrators of vileant crimes given by the victims of violent crime and that was rejected by the judge. i think it's ironic that the new

york city police department is probably the most diverse police department in the world. we have police officers born in 88 countries. our police officer rank is my jo majority minority. we believe that the losers in this are people living in minority communities. >> mike barnicle, jump in. >> the judge's decision, there's some pretty harsh language that she used to describe the department's tactics and the department itself and the implementation of stop and frisk. were you personally offended by some of the language? >> i think new yorkers should be offended. it's certainly not based on the evidence that was introduced in court. that's why we think it cries out for an appeal. racial profiling is against the law. is against our own regulations. we simply don't do it.

we thing that an appeal court will show that's the case. >> the issue that joe raised to begin the segment, you get the sense walking around the city today that there's a level of complacency about potential terrorism that didn't exist six, seven years ago, immediate aftermath of september 11th? >> absolutely. it wasn't a question when this administration came in january 2002, it wasn't a question of whether or not we were going to be attacked by terrorists. the question of when. it wasn't a question of whether or not crime was going up, it was how much. all of that has been dispelled as a result. has been just kind of relaxing of the citizenry in general in terms of a concern about terrorism. we understand that. got to get on with our lives. it's our job to pay attention to it. that's what we're doing. we haven't had a successful

attack here not for want of try. we've had 16 attempts in new york city. no other u.s. city comes close to that. this is where you get the most international bang for the buck, if you will. >> sure. >> mr. commission, are you also concerned? mike was asking if you were offended by the judge's -- some of the harsh language. are you concerned that kbd candidates running for mayor now, christine quinn has called your policy on stop and frisk out of control. other candidates seem to be mochbli in moving away from what bloomberg and giuliani have been doing. we've seen an extraordinary drop in crime. an extraordinary drop in murders. as you said, especially in minority neighborhoods. >> right. i'm trying to stay out of the mayor's race. but the numbers are really startling. last year, we had a record low year for murders and shootings.

this year, we're running 30% below that. as i said, the vast majority of these shootings and murders take place in communities of color. so yeah, i would think that the candidates, if, in fact, they want to back away from what they've done, should have their own program. should say what are they going to do to keep the city safe. i don't believe that it's happened yet. >> of course, that's what's most fascinating, is this policy is criticized and yet there aren't a lot of people calling to completely overturn it. like christine quinn has yet to say well we've replaced it. new york police commissioner ray kelly, thank you very much. we always appreciate you being with us. coming up next, uncertainty is driving the markets. how the looming threat of military action in syria is impacting the dow and the cost of gasoline at the pump. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪

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are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account. welcome back. business before the bell with brian schachtman. syria is shaking up the markets, isn't it? >> it's not just stocks. the dow sold up 170 yesterday. they call it the fear trade. people sell stocks. they buy oil. they buy gold. most is fear of syria but a little is the debt ceiling. everything else, if oil stays above $110, which this morning it did go above $110 a barrel,

that's going to have a negative impact. we talked about itted an naus a over the last five years. that's going to have a negative impact on our economy. worry about the growth impact if that stays that way. it's a major problem. it has nothing to do with pol y policy. >> yes for brian. >> richard, when we have conflict, whether we're in full-blown war or not, it has is up a destabilizing impact on so many things. starting with our economy. and how much americans pay for gas at the pump. >> we all know markets don't like uncertainty, but this engagement with syria, although all the, you know, early leaks are about how limited it's going to be, nobody knows how limited it's going to be. not the administration. they don't know how the reaction is going to play out. or how assad is going to respond. this kind of uncertainty in the marketplace, normally they're

irrational but this is actually quite reasonable. >> is there an underlying theme about who's going to be the next head of the fed and also interest rates? or is this just driven by the events in syria? >> markets have this sort of short-term focus. whether it's larry summers or janet yell en, that is a concer. wall street just wants to know. larry summers, we don't know quite how he'd be. right now, there's no doubt that destabilization in the middle east is leading to a lot of this instability in the markets. i will say, people made a lot of money. they need a good reason to sell. they need a good reason to put profits. again, wall street's goal is to make money. they're not interested in the political side of it. if they've made so money and they don't like what they see, they get out. >> you know, as we're talking about how wall street may take a hit from this, i'm looking at the dow at 14,000, we're going to detroit tomorrow, have you r

ever seen, in all of your years of reporting, more of a disconnect between wall street >> never, because this is a recovery that doesn't include working people. it's the disgrace of this recovery. it goes back to the question of we need to confront the idea thatrecove recovery. wall street, main street, working class people are suffering in this country. and our policies have not trickled down. the profits are not trickling down. the market is not trickling down. people are out of work, underemployment. young people up to 30% unemployment in our big cities. this is a horrible fact of life. and its policymakers have got to start to address it. >> yes, all this debate about the minimum wage and everything

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as we mark the 50th anniversary of the march on washington, martin luther king's youngest daughter bernice king was just 5 months old that day in 1963. she talked about the speech and the memories of her father. here she is in her own words now. >> him lifting me up. exactly what i remember growing up with my father. as i grew up, i had a range of emotions. i became, you know, angry. angry that he let. angry at god for not protecting him. angry at whites at the time because i felt like they were responsible for his death. angry at brack blacks because i we weren't doing enough to continue his work. so i think at that moment i realized the importance of his

contribution but at the same time i realized the magnitude of my own loss. in the sense that, you know, why my dad. >> 'cause i have a dream. >> every time he speaks, you know, he's challenging us to do better, to do more. >> to one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. i have a dream. >> the whole purpose of remembering and commemorating is not to be satisfied with just the accomplishments that we've made. but it's also to further inspire us. because struggle is a never ending process. freedom is never really won. you earn it and win it in every generation. >> free at last. free at last. thank god almighty we are free

at last. >> it doesn't matter how many times i listen to, it's always wow, i really wish he were here. ♪ i wish i could say all the things that i should say ♪ ♪ say 'em loud ♪ say 'em clear ♪ for the whole round world to hear ♪ ♪

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. what i've learned today is jon meachem believes mlk's speech 50 years ago was perhaps the most significant, and i think he may be right, if you look at the impact it had, how quickly it helped facilitate change in this country. >> you watch it 50 years later and you feel the power of that moment. 4:00 eastern time, we'll be replaying that speech. >> echo what joe said in the last segment. america lost a great person. a movement lost a leader. it's just pretty poignant to hear the voice. >> we're going to be true to the speech, we need to be talking about jobs. >> that's right. carl. >> this is the great american

leader. he was not a president and he changed this country as no other individual in our history who was not a president did. it's remarkable. it's sad that he's gone. he brought us out of the wilderne wilderness. >> three things today. i agree with mika's assessment about the impact. i believe that john mccain has not given up the fight on the passage of immigration. part of the message still resonating here. also, you'll be thrilled with this, just in verlander is joining us yesterday from detroit. >> yes, the great j.v. we'll end on that note. we'll be live in detroit. see you there tomorrow. join us as we cover every angle of what's happening in detroit. for 3 1/2 hours. >> way too early -- >> mike barnicle, if it's way too early what time is it? >> ordinarily, time for "morning

joe" but right now time for chuck todd. chuck, take it away. a half century of hope. 50 years after dr. king delivered his i have a dream speech, washington and the world will reflect on the work still to be done. meantime, the u.s. and the world allies let syria know that chemical attacks will not be tolerated. we'll get the latest on what kind of military strike could punish assad without somehow swaying the country's civil war. those realities weigh heavily on president obama today when he marks the dream anniversary, honoring the legacy of nonviolence on the eve of an expected u.s.-led military strike. good morning from washington. it's wednesday, august 28th, 2013. this "the daily rundown," i'm chuck todd. let's get right to the first reads of the morning. today is the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. of course dr.